“We’re all guilty of being on autopilot through life sometimes”: Circa Waves’ Kieran Shudall on Death & Love Part Two
Liverpuldian indie rocker Circa Waves first burst onto the music scene in 2013, and after playing the festival circuit and support for the likes of the 1975 and The Libertines, hit the top ten with their 2015 debut album Young Chasers, driven by the likes of earworm tracks T-Shirt Weather and Stuck in My Teeth. Fast forward ten years and four further records, tragedy struck, with frontman Kieran Shudall facing a life-threatening heart condition that required urgent surgery, and a pause to the band’s progress.
But out of the ashes of that setback has come some of their finest material to date: a double album, the first part launched in January and the second set to land this week. Ahead of the release of Death & Love Part Two, Shudall spoke candidly to The Upcoming about mortality, mid-30s hangovers, and the desire to make “loads of banging indie tunes” in the wake of his brush with death.
So, we’ve got Death & Love Part Two coming out this Friday – how does it feel?
It’s good. It’s been a really long period of time releasing these two parts, so it’s kind of nice that it’s coming to a final ending, really. I can say goodbye to it in a way, which is quite nice.
Tell us about everything that’s gone into the writing of it – that brush with death you had, and why you think you had this burst of creativity that meant you actually had enough material to even split it into two albums.
I think with any hyper-emotional thing in your life, it breeds melody and songs. Having that big moment where I had the heart condition – how terrifying that was – brought out all these songs, which I think is true of any big thing that happens in life. If you have a big breakup or somebody close to you passes away, those types of things bring about songs. So I just had loads of songs that I wrote in this quick flurry, and we felt it was a shame not to release them all, so we did it in two parts.
You’ve said this second part feels like the more positive one – that there’s more optimism running through it. Was that part of the distinction between the tracks you chose for the first release and the ones for the second?
I think production-wise the second one’s a bit poppier, or it certainly has a few more pop elements to it, but it still has that same Circa Waves sound running through. In terms of subject matter, it’s all kind of from that same period; I suppose some of the songs are more about after-the-fact of the heart stuff – me becoming excited about life and being happy to be alive. So there are certainly some more exuberant themes, but it’s still all about the same bloody heart issue!
If it’s not too much to keep revisiting it – what do you think are some of the things that came out of that health scare? I guess realising life isn’t guaranteed and life is short. It’s awful to go through, but perhaps it puts a fire in your belly in that others might not have.
Yeah, I think we’re all slightly guilty of being on autopilot through life at times. And I certainly think with the band we’d been so lucky to release a record, tour, do festivals, release a record, tour – everything became, I wouldn’t say monotonous because I absolutely loved it, but we were just following the course of what a band does. So this really did, as you say, put a fire in my belly to be like, how lucky are we that we get to do this? It’s obviously finite – we don’t know how long we can do this for. So when we were recording it, I really felt this excitement to be doing it again. Even though we were making our sixth record and we’d done it five times previously, I just felt extremely lucky to be doing it. I was very grateful and mindful of how great it is to be in a band and make music for a job – it’s stupid really, you know what I mean? Everyone who does that is extremely lucky. So yeah, I just felt really lucky and was very aware of how lucky we were and are.
How did that shape your dynamic with the band? I guess having to cancel shows and hit pause during surgery, then coming out the other side, must have bonded you even more.
Yeah, I think that was it. The fear of it all being over – the band, or thinking you might die – that ultimately does bring you closer. And the band were so good with it, you know what I mean? We had to cancel so many things, and they had to put their lives on hold for me, so that just made me appreciate them more, I guess. And once we came through the other side, touring together again felt like there was this new life to it. For all the rubbishness around it, it did have a positive effect in the end.
Coming to some of the specific tracks, such as Lost in the Fire, which my millennial indie heart absolutely fell in love with. There’s that lyric, “I took one look at the river of Styx and decided not to die.” You really channelled that confrontation with your mortality into something celebratory rather than dark.
Yeah, I think it’s like a refusal to go – like I’m not ready to go yet. And yeah, it’s meant to be a defiant song. I think the guitars led me to write those lyrics really – the instrumentation informed the lyrics a bit there. And it’s fun to pretend to be a tough guy every now and again and be like, “I’m not going to die,” even though I had absolutely zero say in the matter. It was all down to the NHS going in there and saving me. Yeah, that song is sort of for me, to tell me that I got through it.
You’d said your impulse was to make a load of banging indie tunes – to get back to that raw indie energy. What made you want to go that route?
I think it’s just my favourite genre – that’s what I grew up listening to. I was lucky enough to grow up in the North West where you had Arctic Monkeys and The Strokes and Maxïmo Park and Editors – the list is endless. That’s what I’ve always wanted to channel with Circa Waves, really, because I just love it and I get to play it every night. So I’m going to make songs that I really like.
It can feel reductive to talk about trends and waves, but it does feel like indie’s coming back. For a while, it felt like those were the bands we grew up with, and the new generation didn’t connect, but now they’re revisiting that music and loving the live band scene. Do you feel it’s having a bit of a renaissance?
I’m certainly seeing more of it. I’m unfortunately on TikTok – which is an awful platform, but I’m addicted to it like everyone else – and I see a lot of new bands on there now, and that’s kind of how I come across them. There’s loads of really exciting stuff coming out. Why that is, I’m not really sure. I guess in this day and age, where everything seems so fake and AI-driven, we need some realness, and there’s nothing more real than four people in a band smashing their guitars as loud as they can. That’s what I fell in love with, and hopefully what new generations are falling in love with. The more bands that get created, the more chance you’ve got of finding the next Cribs or Editors or whatever you like. So we need more, and I’m happy to watch it all happen again, hopefully.
I guess it’s the one thing that AI can’t replace, right? Four people stood on a stage, blasting out a track with their instruments, singing at the top of their lungs.
Yeah, exactly!
Cherry Bomb is another favourite of mine – I just love the energy in that track. What’s the story behind that one, and recording it in the studio?
Yeah, that was very much a home recording actually – it came from a drum loop and a synth loop. I think I was listening to lots of Dandy Warhols at the time, that sort of driving 90s, almost stoner-rock vibe. The verse lyrics don’t really mean anything – certainly the first verse – I just wanted to landmark words that don’t necessarily have a story, if you will. The chorus just wants to be a really singable thing about that special person in your life who’d do anything for you. But yeah, that’s a real bedroom recording song – very much just me with a drum machine and a synth and making it work. The first verse is pretty much sung how I sang it off the top of my head, hence why it doesn’t make any sense!
Tell us more about the recording – the friend’s studio in Finsbury Park, and RAK Studios, where you bumped into Billie Joe Armstrong, right?
Yeah, they were in! There’s a place called RAK Studios – we were there yesterday doing some filming. It’s an amazing hotbed of fantastic musicians. Last time we were there, Mick Jagger just walked past me, and you’re like, “Ah, hello,” you sort of panic. We had Green Day in one room and Muse in the other, and we were in the third studio. So you’re surrounded by these legends, making your little indie record in there, doing what they do. If you’re a young band and you want to accidentally bump into the greatest rock stars of all time, just book a few days at RAK Studios.
Would they be up there with some of your favourites – were you a Green Day fan?
I wouldn’t say anymore. I certainly listened to Green Day when I was a young man. Muse, I liked one of their albums. But I’m very much more on the indie side – The Strokes, Arctic Monkeys, all that sort of stuff is where my heart lies.
And the launch for the record – you did something in July with cocktails and all sorts, was it wild?
Yeah, we did a silent disco thing. And we’ve got a little Liverpool show – we’ve sold out this little venue and we’re transforming it into a Death & Love-themed venue, so there’s going to be cake and balloons and all sorts. I’m not designing it, thankfully – hopefully I’ll just turn up and it’ll all look good. I can’t wait. I love playing Liverpool, so it’s exciting.
When you’re writing, are you already envisioning how you’ll play something live? If the tracks aren’t overproduced, do they translate quite seamlessly – and do you already have in mind which ones will go off or become fan favourites?
You certainly have fantasies of people screaming words back to you, and you hope for that. When I wrote We Made It, the first chorus is like a breakdown chorus, and in my head, I was like, “I hope people sing it back with me.” But I never really think about live too much. Songs become what they want to be live. If a song feels like it’ll be good live, it probably will be; if it doesn’t, it probably won’t. I don’t put any restrictions on myself based on what the live version will be.
Has the creation of this two-part album been cathartic? Has it been painful at times? Do you think when you perform these songs, memories will be dredged up, or will it only ever feel like a positive thing?
When we did the main tour for the record, there were certainly moments where I felt more emotional on stage with the lyrical content. It does feel cathartic – you feel like you’ve got something off your chest when you’re singing to 3,000 people. It’s a big therapy session for me. But as time’s gone on, the songs become… I don’t really think super hard about what they’re about; I just sing them for the people. Whether that’s good or bad, I don’t know – maybe people would be better performers if they thought really hard about everything they were saying – but for me, I’d find it too draining to do that every night.
Reflecting on where you’ve come since Young Chasers, how do you think the band and the sound have evolved – especially with the interruption of your health? Do you think it’s gone in a different direction than it might have otherwise?
It’s hard to say. You want to do the band for as long as possible because it’s what you love – it’s the dream. When we released our third record and it didn’t do what I wanted it to, I looked back at the things I thought I’d done right earlier on and developed them a bit more. That’s when we did Sad Happy, which was arguably a bit of a return to form. I think you are affected by what people think of you and your ticket sales, and all that. We did Brixton Academy at the start, then we went lower, then we went back up to Brixton – there are always ebbs and flows. I try not to write thinking about what people want, but ultimately it does affect your mind, and you know which songs people like from previous records, so that’s always in your head. You can’t chase it too much. I’d love to write another T-Shirt Weather, but it’s not possible, unfortunately!
Has what happened changed your relationship with creativity – your writing, your relationship with music and performing?
Yeah. I honestly just let my subconscious brain take me where it wants to go. Often I’ll make a track and start singing, and if my brain goes to lyrics about heart stuff or about my children or my wife or my friends, I let it. I never try to guide myself too much. I really dislike writing sessions where, at the start, you decide what the song is about. I feel like you should let the music inform what you sing about – start singing and whatever comes out usually is the right direction.
We said it helped bond the band – I bet it also helped you bond with fans who are just delighted you’re producing music and playing live again!
Yeah, hopefully. We’ve always been really lucky with our fans, and I think especially when we play Liverpool – because my family and friends are there – it means even more.
Because of what’s happened you’re perhaps living in the moment, taking it day by day – but what’s on the horizon? What are you planning for next year: big festivals you’re going for, bucket-list venues you’d love to play?
I don’t know, really. We’ve definitely got some festivals lined up. We’re not going to be doing any touring ourselves, I don’t think – I don’t know when we’ll do a proper tour again. I’d love to get out to Asia again – we’ve not done that for a bit – whether we’ll do that, I don’t know. Next year will be a few festivals, maybe a support with someone – and we need a bit of downtime to concentrate on our lives. We’re all getting on a bit now – we’ve got wives and I’ve got kids and all that business.
Anyone you’d love to play alongside on a bill or support?
The Strokes or Arctic Monkeys. I’m a proper fanboy for both of those bands. I don’t think that’ll happen, but you can dream, can’t you? Those sorts of bands… one of the cool things about supporting someone on tour is you get to watch them every night, side of stage. We supported The Libertines – got to watch them every night – and then we did a massive 1975 tour and watched them every night. It’s a great way to learn your craft and how really successful people do it. I’d love to support the Monkeys or The Strokes just to learn from them a bit.
What about newcomers coming up behind you – artists you’d love to have supporting you?
There’s a band called Westside Cowboy who I think are great. There’s a young band who’ve supported us called Courting – they’re a Liverpool band. I love Wunderhorse – they’re massive. Yeah, there are loads.
Thanks so much for sharing all that with me. Huge congrats on the second part of the record – can’t wait for it to be out on Friday and for everyone to hear it. Hopefully, I’ll see you play live soon.
Yeah, brilliant. We’ll come to London again soon!
Sarah Bradbury
Image: Paul Polocho
Death & Love Part Two is released on 24th October 2025. For further information or to order the album, visit Circa Wave’s website here.
Watch the video for Stick Around here:
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